He has us talking as a unified group against a common enemy.

From what I have read on this forum, far from having us talking as a unified group, he has created deep division and aroused great hostility, most of it against him.

And who exactly are "the enemy" meant to be? Is that really how you think of those who would rather we wore clothes?

A standard quote. His 'case' permits 'us' to analyse our own beliefs. There are people for and people against and those in the middle. Debate is the balance.
I did not have a specific idea of who 'the enemy' was. The idea is to know and study your enemy. Until we know ourselves we cannot know others. The 'I am' and the 'you are' syndrome perhaps?

Steve Gough certainly raises the hackles of us all. His approach is far more likely to gain attention, and possibly produce changes in the status quo-Milfmog quote. So by that effect he has done good for the cause. He has us talking as a unified group against a common enemy. Support him or do not support him, he has made a mark on society. He is a history which I cannot lay claim to. His Lands End to John O Groats walks have been immortalised at Lands End on a plaque and he still incites debate.

Oh! should I die, before I  can also raise my flag to that claim!Proud to be called a dickhead , not for the intended insult, but I take it as a compliment that I support Steve Gough.

Just a question in relation to this for you and I ask out of interest and not to antagonise anyone.  You say you support SG. Yet in your numerous walk reports you describe the walks where you begin covered and uncover only when you are out of site of textiles.  When you mention coming accross textiles you cover up.

Now if you support SG why do you not remain nude in spite of meeting textiles as he would do?  Is it a case of supporting the cause but not wishing to go through the business with police or suporting what he stands for but not necessarily agreeing that he is going about it the right way?

...why do you not remain nude in spite of meeting textiles as he would do? ...

I support him; I do not agree with him. Most naturist rambling groups (specifically my own) cover-up when appropriate. Steve has chosen to not cover-up as a militant action. I cite the example of the breast feeding movement. One lady breast fed everywhere so that most ladies, who have no desire to breastfeed everywhere, could do so in secluded areas without fear of arrest. She was a militant breast feeder  ;D that caused a change in the law. Ladies hiding in the toilets and attempting to breastfeed would never have been recognised.

Do you support a soldier killing an enemy? Would you take up a gun and shoot a man (or woman) ? You can support without doing the same job.

Love the question  😎 I love being antagonised by clever people  🙂 If I have not answered your question to your satisfaction then please continue to prod  😕

Quote from Richard on BN:

For what it's worth I would defy anyone who doesn't know me to be aware that I am offended by the sight of religious symbols. referring to a cross worn as a pendant  Equally, I don't believe I have the right not to be offended and therefore I tolerate other people shoving their religious beliefs in my face in this manner.

If you replace cross with nudity you see the dilemma. The cross may be offensive to some but how do you know if the other person will be offended until you expose your cross or 'bits'. Does anyone have the right not to be offended by the sight of a cross/ 'bits' to cause them to be hidden from others?

Whilst we all have rights, we also had responsibilities. In this context we have our right to display a religious symbol, be naked etc. Equally we have responsibilities not to offend so as in many parts of our lives we have to comprimise. We are not naked in Tesco. Whilst I might (and I'm not) wear a religious sysmbol I won't wear one that suggests you follow my faith.

Funny this one. Will those who object to a religious symbol also object to the wearing of a club footy shirt or Rotarian membership badge etc .. or even a BN polo shirt.

The word we need is tolerance by all to all. Pigs are unfortunately flying at the moment!!

Davie  😎

Pigs are unfortunately flying at the moment!!

Not all pigs; Wifey just made me a bacon butty and I reckon she's put at least half a pig in it having executed it by drowning in HP sauce. Yum!!!

Sorry, back to serious topic now I'm fed...

This point about trying not to offend others remains one of the biggest debating points in naturism. So many naturists are anxious not to upset others that we effectively cease to exist in the public consciousness, that is why we find it hard to assert our freedoms and be naked where it suits us.

Have fun,

Ian.

Whilst we all have rights, we also had responsibilities. In this context we have our right to display a religious symbol, be naked etc. Equally we have responsibilities not to offend so as in many parts of our lives we have to comprimise. We are not naked in Tesco.
Davie  😎

As you say we have to compromise, and we probably all have different ideas about that. As things stand I certainly would not expect to be naked in Tesco. On the other hand I wouldn't expect simple nudity it to be an issue on an unofficial beach that is regularly used by naturists.

Unfortunately even on those beaches people sometimes do complain, and the police rather than telling the complainants that the nudists are not breaking the law, go and tell the latter to cover up.

John

So many naturists are anxious not to upset others that we effectively cease to exist in the public consciousness, that is why we find it hard to assert our freedoms and be naked where it suits us.

I agree but I think it's not a case of upsetting people, it's fear of the consequences of "coming out" Whether or not that is a correct view is not the crucial point at the moment. It's perceptions of what may happen that are paramount in many naturists minds. if they can be re-assured of a positive or at least non-negative response many more will be open about their life style.

I still think a few pigs are flying around and I like my bacon dry cured, smokey and well done! Ugg HP sauce, naw tomato ketchup!!

Davie  😎

<snip>
On the other hand I wouldn't expect simple nudity it to be an issue on an unofficial beach that is regularly used by naturists.

Unfortunately even on those beaches people sometimes do complain, and the police rather than telling the complainants that the nudists are not breaking the law, go and tell the latter to cover up.

John

It is this perception of the police attitude which has allowed many traditional C-O beaches to be hijacked by "meercat" nuisances and for sexual purposes.
Affronted nudists are afraid that if they try to report such illegal behaviour they will instead find themselves in the dock as described above.

In practice, I believe the police would now be far more sensible and that a few such successful reports would have a greatly beneficial effect, but where are the nudes who will stick their head above the parapet in this way?

JOhn
Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

 

RB you answered my question perfectly.  You didnt read my post though because you said you like to be antaginised by clever people yet I stated it was not my intention to antagonise - so ner ner ner (thats me sounding clever 🙂  )

Anyway in response to your response I am glad you reacted that way and I understand your view point.

Time will tell if SG is actually doing any good or not.  From what I have seen in non naturist forums he is generally seen as a bit of a plonker and a slight nutcase.  In which case no harm done.

AM:
Am I wrong preaching what I do not practice?
My citation of the case of the soldier seems to illustrate my theory to at least my satisfaction.

It is not the fear of ridicule or arrest that concerns me after all I am a Borg attempting to assimilate all those textiles but my desire to respect all living things (and this does include textiles). What I do seek is that 'others' also respect me. If I am too meek I will be a battery hen unable to freerange as I desire. {Trekkie as well as my other faults}

What I do seek is that 'others' also respect me.

I think we all want that. Respect, I think, is on two levels. First we should all respect one another in terms of being polite, allowing others views etc.

Respect of a more serious king though has to be earned. Those who promote naturism in a stupid way (another can of worms seeking a definition) will not gain such respect. Those who act with dignity and sensitivity are more likely to succeed.

Thus I can respect anyone's views but I can respect some people much more than others.
Hope that makes sense.

An example, a "newbie" comes along and says he's a naturist/pagan etc. OK fine. He or she then comes across with some deeply held views, contributes, allows other to make points etc. and I can then respect the individual. A case in point without sounding patronising is RB.

Davie  😎

I do feel that I have lost track of how many times Steve has been arrested, on what charges, and appeared in court and been released into captivity. Is there a reasonably detailed history somewhere? I'm sure I linked to a Facebook page a litle while ago but I can't find it now, maybe it's been deleted in the way of Facebook and anything to do with nudity.

Cheers,
nib

I have had a go at combining dates from Steve's website, the BBC and some newspapers and made this:

http://www.nib-kit.co.uk/steve_gough_00.html

There is least detail there about the most recent and more serious cases.

Cheers,
nib

... promote naturism in a stupid way (another can of worms seeking a definition)...
Davie  😎

I do love you! You always put your foot in it and I love to push harder at that foot  🙂

Please define stupid

We are aware that our 'mission' is the promotion of 'the removal of body shame'. To achieve this aim we need to desensitise society (akin to allergy treatments) to nudity. Can you classify puppetry of the penis Is this stupid? Is this erotic entertainment (I think not since there is no sexuality compared to a stripper)? For those who are naive about puppetry of the penis; it is a stage show that has been around for some time. Google for some fun.

I presume you feel Steve is being stupid. Do you also class Richard Collins (Naked cycling) as stupid. Do you class all 'militant' naturism as stupid? Is the World Naked Bike ride stupid (there have been arrests around the world).

Snow outside; stupid signing off  ;D

Edit to allow wisdom of Chris Lamb:
... It's not the nudity in itself that is the offence, but the contextual effect of the behaviour. We are never going to get a legal precedent that says "You can go naked wherever you want without fear of committing an offence by doing so". Thus, even if Richard is acquitted, it is perfectly possible that someone cycling naked in quite different circumstances could be convicted of the POA offence.

...
I have had a go at combining dates from Steve's website, the BBC and some newspapers and made this:

http://www.nib-kit.co.uk/steve_gough_00.html

There is least detail there about the most recent and more serious cases.

Cheers,
nib

Well done nib I have downloaded it and will digest it later. What a long and complex history. Perhaps needs posting to Wikipedia site on Steve Gough once it is out of draft.

For services rendered to Steve I offer you a sincere thank you. Trust you also publish your draft on the BN forum to try to drag BN into the Steve/Richard case. These cases are very important for naturism IMHO and we are naive if we ignore their implications if the courts judge unfavourably. Regardless of how you feel about these people do not let the courts use them as an excuse to further limit our sensibilities.

Me thinks thou doest protest too much! I cast the line and the bait was taken.

Those who promote naturism in a stupid way (another can of worms seeking a definition)

I have already acknowledged that defining "stupid is difficult.

I think Steve Gough's idea of walking the country naked is fine. I think to waste your life languishing in a prison cell for a cause few people support is not sensible. Life consists of compromises. On the other hand the action by the Scottish Courts is stupid and offensive. Richard Collins cycled naked in one area, moved to another place, did what he did before and got banged up.

In this case it shows the law up as a postcode lottery and that is stupid and unfair. At the same time I think he was possibly a bit naive, but I personally don't think he was wrong in law.

Stupid - offensive not intelligent, or not able to consider or judge things carefully

If an naturists actions tend to make naturism less acceptable to the public at large then that must be stupid and counterproductive to the promotion of our life-style. If it enhances acceptance then the opposite is true.

Suzanne Piper on the plinth to my view enhanced naturism. I'm not convinced the actions of Steve Gough actually promote our life-style. If it does, fine, if not his actions  may well be construed as stupid. Time will tell. The perception of stupidity, like beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder.

I hope my foot is in a little less deep, but thank you for making me think about the issue a little more. It's possibily a good thing I can't make your yoga weekend or you'd try to tie me up in knots physically as well! Incidentially, good luck with it. Our local club is activily considering yoga evenings.

Davie  😎